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	<title>Comments on: Time to Grow Up!</title>
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	<description>The grace of God has appeared...</description>
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		<title>By: neozine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Podcast for Time To Grow Up</title>
		<link>http://neozine.org/inside/37/comment-page-1#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>neozine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Podcast for Time To Grow Up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neozine.org/blog/2008/02/05/time-to-grow-up/#comment-249</guid>
		<description>[...] Mar 28th, 2008 by Keith    &#160;  &#160;Standard Podcast [50:55m]: Play Now &#124; Play in Po...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mar 28th, 2008 by Keith    &nbsp;  &nbsp;Standard Podcast [50:55m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download   Keith McCallum narrates the original article Time to Grow Up! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kmcc</title>
		<link>http://neozine.org/inside/37/comment-page-1#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>kmcc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neozine.org/blog/2008/02/05/time-to-grow-up/#comment-164</guid>
		<description>And Lisa, I also meant to get back to you on this but forgot. You're asking a good question. Let me ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Lisa, I also meant to get back to you on this but forgot. You&#8217;re asking a good question. Let me rephrase it &#8212; &#8220;why do I keep getting hung-up by my old tribe?&#8221; Especially since you left it years ago (heading into the diffuse world), it&#8217;s frustrating to come back to &#8220;adulthood&#8221; still sometimes struggling with the hangups &amp; etc. from the old tribe.</p>
<p><strong>There&#8217;s two stages to growth from Infantile/Diffuse:</strong> the first is into Maturity, which is typically tribal. In Maturity, we&#8217;re able to accomplish &#8220;grown up&#8221; things like running a household and so forth. However, this &#8220;Maturity&#8221; is not God&#8217;s ideal of &#8220;Spiritual Maturity,&#8221; but rather human-strength-Maturity.</p>
<p>God&#8217;s ideal of Spiritual Maturity includes the ability to not only establish a household, but to reach out beyond the household victoriously into the surrounding world. I know, for example, you and Steve are doing precisely that, and coincidentally it is bringing continued victory into your life as you &#8220;advance towards&#8221; rather than &#8220;retreat from&#8221; (which is so typically tribal).</p>
<p>Still, there remains the necessity of going back to your Tribe (parents) and redefining the relationship you inherited or built there. This again means &#8220;advancing towards&#8221; rather than &#8220;retreating from.&#8221; It&#8217;s necessary to &#8220;go back home&#8221; and engage in relationships there not as the &#8220;little girl&#8221; you once were, but in your new &#8220;Spiritual Woman&#8221; identity which is grounded in the faith and hope of Christ. <em>By engaging in those original tribal relationships with this new identity, you&#8217;ll begin experiencing freedom from the old &#8220;expectations&#8221; and patterns.</em> That freedom follows you back into your new &#8220;tribe&#8221;, and you&#8217;ll find yourself thinking &amp; feeling completely different: as a truly grown woman of God.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll be discussing this transformation process more.</p>
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		<title>By: kmcc</title>
		<link>http://neozine.org/inside/37/comment-page-1#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>kmcc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neozine.org/blog/2008/02/05/time-to-grow-up/#comment-163</guid>
		<description>Very cool, Mike. Your life reads like my "tribal punk" life. I too was dissatisfied with my disadvan...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very cool, Mike. Your life reads like my &#8220;tribal punk&#8221; life. I too was dissatisfied with my disadvantage as a mere &#8220;punk&#8221; and befriended the best &#8220;bullies&#8221; I could find. What I never realized was how short-term a bully&#8217;s &#8220;victory&#8221; really is &#8212; they begin devouring one another too easily.</p>
<p>You may notice the &#8220;diffuse hope&#8221; is not extensively detailed, above. This is because there&#8217;s a real rough road ahead for those of us from such dysfunctional lifestyles&#8211;far more issues than I can get into with this article. But <em>it does mean rebuilding Permanent Love Values,</em> and does not mean imitating the PLV&#8217;s which our tribes were based upon. Lisa&#8217;s comment is directly tied to the same issue. I do intend to address that soon enough, for the sake of all us bullies!</p>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://neozine.org/inside/37/comment-page-1#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neozine.org/blog/2008/02/05/time-to-grow-up/#comment-14</guid>
		<description>This really hits home for me. I think It has helped me understand the actions i've taken over my lif...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This really hits home for me. I think It has helped me understand the actions i&#8217;ve taken over my life span.</p>
<p> I grew up in a very tribal home, one where politeness was extolled as the way to get around in the world. Then when i was a teenager I withdrew from my family and became a bully out in the world. I still acted within the acceptable behavioral patterns at home and family functions but out where i spent my time and energy I went from a punk to a bully, I found that even though I would try to be a hard!@$ and would fly from relationship to relationship, treating people like dirt.. I spent alot of effort trying to round other bullies up into a tribe.</p>
<p>I think I started as a seriously weak punk. I mean I got eaten up and chewed and spit out and stepped on and scraped off and thown away. After this experience I &#8220;realized&#8221; that I needed to become a bully. I befreinded the biggest bullies I could find and threw out all of my love rules to persue the only road I thought possible. Only I was never happy as a bully, I really wanted to be a punk instead. So I tried to turn other bullies into punks.</p>
<p>after failing at trying to bully other bullies into my tribe, I went after some sissies, which I ended up just turning into tramps. when all of this failed I finaly broke down and decided to look into christ.</p>
<p>Then something amazing happened. I accepted christ, found this realy awesome church, and things started to make sense, so I thought.</p>
<p>What I really found at that time was a place where I thought I could have a difuse tribe. A closeknit group of people that bounced around between outside relationships and activities, I still persued sissies unseccesefully, what I beleive I did is take the only patterns for behavior I knew and tried to apply them to christian life. I was struggling to have an exciting diffuse life that was backed by plv&#8217;s, and the plv&#8217;s I reached for were the ones I knew the best, the values I learned from my parents.</p>
<p>unfortunately as I found out not only are these values incompatible with the diffuse relating I was into, they are almost completely useless in the real world. only allowing you to build relationships with people of similar upbringings.</p>
<p>I really have been digging this love ethics thing because I believe i&#8217;m in a place now where I know that how i&#8217;ve been approaching things doesn&#8217;t work, and I needed a  clear new paradigm, something that actually works to live in.<br />
I really needed the guidance into what a christian love ethic actually looked like. So thanks for the hard work keith, and thanks to everone else who devoted their time. I really appreciate the way you&#8217;ve put this together in an understandable manner.</p>
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		<title>By: lbeech</title>
		<link>http://neozine.org/inside/37/comment-page-1#comment-16</link>
		<dc:creator>lbeech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 14:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neozine.org/blog/2008/02/05/time-to-grow-up/#comment-16</guid>
		<description>After reading this article - I have gained more understanding on the diffuse and tribal infantile - ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading this article &#8211; I have gained more understanding on the diffuse and tribal infantile &#8211; yet I am still a bit confused.</p>
<p>I came from a very tight tribe &#8211; a messed up tribe &#8211; full of dysfunction and bitterness &#8211; but a close-knit tribe nonetheless. I and my brothers all fled the confines of our tribe. I fled to college seeking significance and was drawn into the alluring world of the diffuse. (My brothers all fled as well &#8211; one found a new tribe among his wrestling buddies, the other found the structure and excitement within the army.)</p>
<p>It was so exciting and &#8220;glittery.&#8221; The music, the lights and the admiration of college men &#8211; those same boys who once rejected a quiet, dutiful daughter and bright, committed student. The charge was indeed very electric.</p>
<p>I left my tribe and threw myself into various relationships &#8211; until I encounter a &#8220;bully&#8221; who took from this naive sissy and as I result I was hurled into the diffuse love sphere. I believe at that time I crossed over from the tribal sphere into the realm of the diffuse &#8211; becoming a tramp.</p>
<p>I moved from relationship to relationship.  Interestingly enough &#8211; it was at this time I started coming to Christian fellowship.  I took as many PLF as I could grab &#8211; engaging simultaneously in immoral relationships with men from two different home churches. (Yes &#8211; sounds sort of trampy to me)</p>
<p>How sick and twisted &#8211; was that.  I justified my behavior &#8211; oh yes &#8211; you see I got different feelings from different guys &#8211; one was a psychology grad student ( I must have been a case study) &#8211; we actually got engaged. He was stable and grounding for me The other was an unstable &#8211; drinking emoter &#8211; who pursued me intensely &#8211; he was fun &#8211; rebellious &#8211; and little bit dangerous.  (Did I forget to mention I got engaged to him as well?)</p>
<p>Why I wasn&#8217;t asked to stay away from fellowship &#8211; I&#8217;ll never know. But God worked with me through the pursuit of female relationships. He pursued me &#8211; he loved me.</p>
<p>I knew I was so screwed up &#8211; I was living contrary to my tribal rules &#8211; I was anything, but the responsible over achiever who had scholarships to college &#8211; who had once worked and saved enough money to pay for two years of college &#8211; I had changed.</p>
<p>So I guess &#8211; my confusion is this.  I had very strong tribal ties &#8211; then it seems I jumped into the diffuse sphere &#8211; not for long &#8211; maybe 2 years &#8211; then Christ and His body pursued and loved me.</p>
<p>But then, it seems that I never truely lost my tribal ways.</p>
<p>Even though, I entered into God&#8217;s family while I was still in the diffuse sphere (I rejected my parents values &#8211; on many levels)  I always went back to my tribe &#8211; at times attempting to resolve old issues or just because I needed the PLV that they offered to me. I felt safe &#8211; until they stiffled me and it was as if I was smoothering.</p>
<p>So in my life &#8211; it seems as if I have moved between love spheres &#8211; moving deeper into depravity and then swinging back the other direction &#8211; but able to still deny some of the tribe&#8217;s rules &#8211; but at the same time longing for the tribe&#8217;s acceptance and perceived security.</p>
<p>What is with all that?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://neozine.org/inside/37/comment-page-1#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neozine.org/blog/2008/02/05/time-to-grow-up/#comment-15</guid>
		<description>You very accurately described the cast of characters out there in the world. I'm definitely a punk t...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You very accurately described the cast of characters out there in the world. I&#8217;m definitely a punk that still tries to play fair and exchange goods or services as a sub for love.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to reading this again.</p>
<p>On a side note, I really like how you did the lay out for this article and how the images are displayed. You&#8217;ll have to enlighten me as to how you got the images to align with the text all nice and have that cool shadow behind them.</p>
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